GALE ANN HURD: It’s really not low brow, it’s got Illeana Douglas starring in it.

CHRIS NEUMER: That’s why I quickly, quickly changed that. She’s good too, she’s very good. I don’t think she gets anywhere near the recommendation she deserves.

GALE ANN HURD: No, well, hopefully now she will, and the exposure.

CHRIS NEUMER: I was even going to say, I also wrote down specifically to tell you how cool Thomas Jane is. I saw him in the Velocity of Gary back in the day.

GALE ANN HURD: Really?

CHRIS NEUMER: He’s just so good, and no one knows any of this, so hopefully next April, we will see.

GALE ANN HURD: Keep your fingers crossed. I’ll tell you, if you could guarantee stardom based on hard work, he’d be an international star. Out of all the effort he put into it. Starting in February, even though we didn’t start shooting until August, he started training with the Navy Seals, just to really get the mindset, as well as the physical ability and training to become a former special services agent. He’s fantastic.

CHRIS NEUMER: What first attracted you to the Punisher movie?

GALE ANN HURD: I really liked it for the fact that Frank Castle doesn’t have any super powers, and he doesn’t really transform in the sense of, you know, anything that happens to him that actually gives him super powers. What does happen is a catalyst, for him the put the training and the experience, and the intelligence…

CHRIS NEUMER: Sort of like Batman, in that respect, that he doesn’t have any superpowers.

GALE ANN HURD: But he [Batman] puts on a silly costume.

CHRIS NEUMER: Batman? See, this goes back to my not being familiar with the Punisher costume.

GALE ANN HURD: The Punisher doesn’t put on —

CHRIS NEUMER: No, not even a little thing around the eyes? He’s just out there?

GALE ANN HURD: Well, you know, the icon for the Punisher was the image of a skull, that’s it, whether it’s on a t-shirt or anything, that’s the symbol of the Punisher. He doesn’t put on tights, he doesn’t have a cape.

CHRIS NEUMER: Wow, that’s interesting. So this is the second interesting superhero you’ve done in a row, well actually, the first, because the Hulk wasn’t really a superhero.

GALE ANN HURD: The Hulk was a Super-Id, so to speak.

CHRIS NEUMER: Did you ever think that might be an interesting problem to work around, that he couldn’t control the anger? Just go out, and be green, and angry, and of course all kinds of bad stuff happens. But in that respect, did you find that to be anything to work around, or was it the hook that drew you to the project?

GALE ANN HURD: What drew me to the project was the idea that he’s more of an anti-hero than a hero. He doesn’t try to save the world; in fact, there’s the duality in a very basic character, Bruce Banner, trying to control what is inside of him, to prevent himself from turning into the Hulk. And the Hulk, who has the feeling that Bruce Banner is out to kill him. So there’s certainly an interesting dichotomy there that I’d be interested in exploring more so than the anger.

CHRIS NEUMER: It kind of reminded me of Unbreakable, in that respect. You set it up, you can’t just jump in, and you can’t start with the sequel, because you’ve got to explain certain things.

GALE ANN HURD: You’ve got to do an origins story.

CHRIS NEUMER: Exactly, it just seemed interesting. As soon as you see Eric down in the Amazon, or wherever he’s supposed to be, you’re just like, suddenly you realize that, and I don’t want to say he’s cognizant, but —

GALE ANN HURD: Right. There comes a time when, maybe it is something you’re glad to have. There’s the curse of the superpower, that most of Marvel Universe characters have, which is that there’s a price to be paid. And now, Bruce Banner has the ability, of course, upon transforming into the Hulk, to defeat the bad guys. Even though it’s not in his control once he’s transformed, but at the same time, he can save people who are, at least, potentially innocent.

CHRIS NEUMER: He did do that on occasion, in this one. Like when the dogs came after Betty. There was one scene in particular at the end, and I wasn’t sure if I was putting things on, where he’s running around as the Hulk in, I think San Francisco, and she comes up and starts talking to him, and he goes back down, and I guess you could call me a closet romantic at heart, but it was like —

GALE ANN HURD: Beauty has changed the beast.

CHRIS NEUMER: I was going to say love has changed the beast.

GALE ANN HURD: Yes, it is love.

CHRIS NEUMER: More so than just the beauty.

GALE ANN HURD: Of course it is, I know, and it is love. The Hulk also has feelings for Betty, not just Bruce Banner.

CHRIS NEUMER: It just was such an interesting idea to think that, you know, this real anti-hero, as you say, has a soft spot in his heart for this woman.

GALE ANN HURD: And he also puts her in the SUV up by the lake.

CHRIS NEUMER: He does. Maybe there’s that one portion of his mind, we can hope. Now were you at all surprised, because I remember during the summer everyone was talking about how the film really lost a lot of momentum after the first week, from the first week to the second week. Did that in any way influence your feelings toward the project or towards the sequel?

GALE ANN HURD: No, most of my reasons have to do with the experience. We were hoping for slightly more, but still, it was a huge opening. It was the biggest opening in June of the Motion Picture business.

CHRIS NEUMER: True, a fact that’s not mentioned very much along the whole "now it’s losing its momentum" thing.

GALE ANN HURD: And it’s very rare that a movie is able to continue its steamroll, when there’s another big tempo film opening the next weekend, and the weekend after that. So, a 50 percent drop, when you have that big an opening, is pretty much expected. It’s far rarer if you don’t see that kind of a drop. And we also were overcome with a lot of difficult things very early, like a cut of the film being uploaded onto the internet.

CHRIS NEUMER: I hadn’t heard about that one.

GALE ANN HURD: Oh yeah.

CHRIS NEUMER: How early, or how rough?

GALE ANN HURD: Well, the movie came out in June, and it was the January cut of the special effects movie, temporary special effects. Anyways, the FBI got involved, and it was traced to a friend of someone who worked at the trailer houses in New York, and he uploaded it to the Internet. People began to review something that certainly wasn’t ready.

CHRIS NEUMER: I just don’t understand how someone would get it a downloadable size, even if they’ve got a T1 or T3 line, to get a file that you can watch that’s so small, I just don’t understand.

GALE ANN HURD: What’s even worse is that the effects were all temporary. There are no sound effects, the effects are all temporary, or, it’s just black leder, because there’s nothing in place for it; there’s no music.

CHRIS NEUMER: Are there that many hard-core fans of the Hulk out there that they need to get an early copy of the film that badly? You can only wonder.

GALE ANN HURD: Obviously there are a lot of talented people toiling away, in Ang’s case, seven days a week, 16 hours a day, for many months after that’s happened, trying to get it as right as possible.

CHRIS NEUMER: That was another thing, I was talking to a friend of mine, who works for the Producer’s Guild, and I always ask the same question, which is "How can you tell, is there any feature or facet of a film that allows somebody to see if it’s been pre-produced, or if good producing is at hand, what is this?" Everybody has a different answer. Some people say, if the overall film is good, then its good producing. And I say well, is there ever a case where you can have good acting in a bad film? And then they think about it, and they have to go back to the drawing board. But one person said that it’s how well a film looks; not how well it ends, but how it looks. And he cited the Hulk as an example. He said, like it or not, there’s no denying that the Hulk looked damn good. And I said that’s true. And then he cited a couple examples, when the guy said, you’ve got the power to shoot thee…

GALE ANN HURD: Destroying him in the Southwest.

CHRIS NEUMER: That’s right, he says stones turn to rubble, something like that. But he cited that as an example, and something about the dogs, as an example. He said, that is a direct result of the producing, and then he mentioned your name, and I said that’s a good point, that goes along with me trying to get an interview with her, why not? Can you see a well-produced film? Is there anything that clues you into something being well-produced?

GALE ANN HURD: There are so many different types of producers, there are times when the look of a film is meant to be gritty, and it’s not meant to be brassy and beautiful. So I think if the look of the film matches the intent, the creative intent, then I think that’s good producing. It doesn’t have to be brassy and beautiful, it just has to be complete, the right thing for the material. You know, like Christine Vachon’s films. She doesn’t have a huge budget, but they’re complete, they have integrity, and look of the film is serving the vision of the film, and that’s what we producers have to do. To be able to use the money we’re able to get, to make a film that is the director’s vision, in such a way that, even though film making is the art of compromise, the compromise is never too great.

CHRIS NEUMER: As a producer of a film - and you can cite as an example any film that you’ve worked on - what is it? Do you just solve problems for the director, or work hand in hand?

GALE ANN HURD: Each film is different, and each director is different.

CHRIS NEUMER: Are there any facets, and I’m always curious to ask, because it’s ever-changing, and you always get the same credit unless you’re executive producer, or even associate producer on a film. Are there any facets of your job, from project to project that seem the same?

GALE ANN HURD: Generally, it’s starting with the piece of material, and there have been a couple of times when I came later, during the process, but almost always on the original work of the project. I set it up in the studio, if it’s a raw piece of material I hire the writer, and in most cases if the director isn’t attached at the time I attach them as an element. I work with the studio to get the director attached, which is certainly the place for Hulk, and most of the films. So I think the first thing the producer does is control the material, and set them up, set up the project.

CHRIS NEUMER: That’s a somewhat more classical definition of the producer.

GALE ANN HURD: But what are the things that…

CHRIS NEUMER: I just wanted to make sure we’re on the same page, that’s all.

GALE ANN HURD: So from that point on it’s trying to ascertain - just from discussions because that’s all you have at that point - that the director shares your vision. Because if the director doesn’t share the same vision, it’s like you’re making two different movies.

CHRIS NEUMER: One thing and I know, because you had made the Punisher with your current husband.

GALE ANN HURD: Don’t say current, say final. (Laugh)

CHRIS NEUMER: I’m sorry, I feel awkward approaching anything remotely personal, and in your case…

GALE ANN HURD: And I’ve had a few.

CHRIS NEUMER: But I was talking to Debra Winger a year ago when she made Big Bad Love, which I really liked, and she made it with her husband, Arliss. She said that working with family and my husband meant that I could be honest without being deemed difficult. And then she finished it off with he already knows how difficult I am. And it just seemed so interesting, that you’re working with someone that you’re close to, you can be honest with, and yet you don’t see it very often. I was just curious to know if you found that to be the case working with your final husband.

GALE ANN HURD: (Laugh) with my permanent husband. It wasn’t the first time we’d worked together, because he wrote Armageddon.

CHRIS NEUMER: But this was the first time you’d worked with him as the director of the film.

GALE ANN HURD: It’s the first time he’s directed, too. So the key thing is that, once he was on board as director, I think I was in an even better position to help him realize his vision, because I really understood what he was going for. And there’s a trust level, he trusted me, I trusted him. I wasn’t waiting for him to look me in the eye, and be passive-aggressive, you know? Which has happened before. So, I knew exactly —

CHRIS NEUMER: If anything, you can always give him a kick in the ass and say, all right, we’ve got to make this better. There’s a director, Charles Herman-Wurmfeld, he just directed Legally Blond 2, and before that Kissing Jessica Stein, which I really enjoyed, and his sister produced it. He told me this story of how his sister -- her name is Eden -- Eden comes into the room and says oh my god, what the hell are you doing, this is all wrong, all of this has to go. And they kicked everyone out and shot the scene a different way, and looking back on it he thought, "I was kind of hurt, but it’s my sister, what are you going to do?" Did you find that to be the case in any other instances when you were working on things with family, other people like that?

GALE ANN HURD: Jim Cameron and I made quite a few movies together, and I think working he has always valued my honesty, and I’m fearless. I think I’m nice, but I have a reputation for being very tough, because I am a person of convictions and if I believe, if I truly believe something’s wrong, I don’t know how to keep my mouth shut.

CHRIS NEUMER: But it also seems like in your position you shouldn’t keep your mouth shut.

GALE ANN HURD: This is becoming a business that’s all about people keeping their mouth shut, which is so different from the seventies, when I started. I started in 1978 working for Roger Corman. All the way through the nineties, began a period of "keep your mouth shut and let someone else be the fall guy." If you keep your mouth shut, you can always point the finger and say it was someone else’s fault. If you actually stake out a position, it’ll be your fault. I don’t believe in changing because I believe those changes are wrong, someone has to take responsibility, you can’t please everyone all the time.

CHRIS NEUMER: You just hope that you can please most of the people most of the time.

GALE ANN HURD: You know, you just try your best.

CHRIS NEUMER: You mentioned Roger Corman and I was looking through some of the things you were credited with, and I noticed, what was it, 1980, you worked as a production assistant on Alligator?

GALE ANN HURD: That wasn’t with Roger though, but yes, I was a second unit production assistant.

CHRIS NEUMER: Wow.

GALE ANN HURD: Yeah.

CHRIS NEUMER: It seems like you walk on your first day as a second unit production assistant —

GALE ANN HURD: But it wasn’t my first experience. My first experience was with Humanoids from the Deep, when I was a PA for Roger Corman.

CHRIS NEUMER: It was also called The Monster, I think.

GALE ANN HURD: I don’t know what else it was called, but it’s on DVD as Humanoids from the Deep. But it was James Horner’s first score; Rob Bottin did the special effects; the head of Gaylord right now, Hunt Lowry, was the UPM. There were a lot of us.

CHRIS NEUMER: So, it was kind of like a behind the scenes Dazed and Confused?

GALE ANN HURD: Yes. That was my first experience on a set, and that was the great thing about Roger, he forced you to start on the bottom. When you start at the bottom you diverge in two different ways. One, you respect every team member, everyone who is contributing, or you get pissed off and want to punish everyone for the fact that you had to start at the bottom.

CHRIS NEUMER: It seems like both have their healthy aspects, too.

GALE ANN HURD: The good news is I know what everyone does on the set, which helps you solve problems when they come up. Roger was so far ahead of his time in the sense that a woman directed Humanoids from the Deep, a woman named Barbara Peters. Women were writing, producing, directing, editing; they served in all positions on Roger’s films, which was pretty much unheard of in the seventies.